Well, Gevurah asked me to put something together to help our Daggersins
so I'll do my best. Warning: this is not a step by step build or guide.
It is what it says...A Guide..to guide you on your journey as a
daggersin. Part of the fun is making your own build and learning the
creatures and dagger combos.
We will start off with some terms
Terms:
_____________
Main Hand Weapon- (Right hand weapon/left weapon box on equip screen) This is where that elemental weapon goes! It's the hand that delivers the Double attack.
Off Hand Weapon- (Left hand weapon/right weapon box on equip screen) This is where you put that carded weapon.
+% modifiers: I'll use this to refer to anything that adds additional percent damage to an attack so it will refer to the bonus of an elemental weapon, carded weapon, or combination of both
Triple Slash- This is double attack with the main hand weapon followed by a hit with the off hand weapon...Nice big yellow number hopefully in the thousands.. /gg
MG: Main Gauche
VS: Very strong- refers to a smithed weapon with a star crumb +5 Damage even on a miss. The +5 does receive the +% modifiers from the off hand weapon.
VVS: Very Very Strong- 2 star crumbs adds +10 damage even if you miss
VVVS: Very,Very, Very Strong- +15 but cannot be elemental
Neutral: A creature or weapon without an elemental property.
Cycle/cycling daggers- Refers to using Hot Keys to switch daggers in the off hand specifically same type daggers in a stack.
Dagger Stack- refers to multiple daggers of the same type. Like elemental Damascus, Non-elemental MG, elemental Stiletto, or non-elemental stiletto that are bound to Hot Keys for cycling. Each stack uses a different Hot Key. Hitting the Hot Key multiple times will cycle through the stack. The equipt dagger goes to the bottom of the appropriate stack and the top dagger on the stack is equipt onto the off hand. The top dagger that is equipt depends on the Hot Key.
Type/Class- when refering to a creature it is thier elemental type/class (Fire1, Fire2,Ice 1,Wind 1, Dark1 ect.... ) The number after the type is thier elemental level and will determine how weak/strong they are to other elements
Size- Yep...creature size there are small/medium/large
__________________________________________________ ___
The Begining:
__________________________________________________ ___
Daggersin Mantra: It's all about the Strength
Str is prime stat for the Daggersin. If you like to attack fast build a crit sin. I never wrote down my stat progression as I leveled my character so I don't have solid numbers for you but I always put STR before any other stat.
Novice: STR: 9, DEX 9, AGI 9 everything else is 1
I think I did something like this.
STR:40
AGI:10
DEX:10
I started this way so I had some killing power then went to AGI for a bit and got some DEX. The higher your STR the faster you can kill, get EXP, and find loot. A good rule would to be keep STR 10 higher than AGI. At the very least keep you STR & AGI equal and get 25 DEX so you will have about 50 STR, 50 AGI, & 25 DEX when you turn assassin.
When you get to 65 to 70 AGI & 42 DEX switch to STR only and get to your STR goal for your build. Ideally you want to hit 110 STR; that means getting your STR to 9X so your base STR + Job bonus + Gear = 110.. You will be about lvl 90 or 91 when that happens. Then it's time to get more AGI and some VIT.. Final stats will look something like this
STR: 9X + 1X = 110
AGI: 8X + XX
VIT: 20 or more
DEX: 42+8
If this seems too extreme and want more AGI earlier that's okay just don't go crazy! DO NOT get 70 AGI and 20 STR unless you like to level very slowly. I'd rather spend my time killing creatures rather than dodging them forever. Dual wielding slows ASPD so you have to make up for it with high damage using high STR and +% modifiers.
How to level with low AGI
1. Do not miss... Make sure you level on creatures you can hit 100% of the time. Every miss means you have to dodge more... And that's not our strong suit.
2. The one nice thing about all that STR is you can carry a lot of potions and you will need them. You will get hit...so what... Nothing a few pots can't fix.
3. Choose creatures you can kill fast. The faster you kill it the less attacks you have to dodge. Even if the creatures are worth less in EXP than some tougher creatures you can gain as much or more EXP because you can kill many in the time it would take to kill one tougher creature.
Daggersin Mantra II : It's all about the speed of the Kill
Skills:
_____________
Right Hand Mastery: 5
Left Hand Mastery: 5
Enchant Poison: 5 at least
Venom Dust: 5 or more--> I like this one
Cloaking: 1
I recommend that you know how to use katar weapons as well... They can come in very handy at times and you can get a reasonable crit rate with a triple crit jur unless the creature is uber lucky. It's good for Horongs and other extremely high defense monsters. Besides hitting for over 2K with sonic blow is just plain fun.
Optional but recommended (I Stongly recommend this if you want to have a chance aginst some bosses & creatures)
Katar Mastery: 10
Sonic Blow :10
Didn't like or haven't used
-Venom Spasher-What the hell...anyway may be fun...I don't know
-Poison React- Too limited in it's uses...I have 2 choices walk up and kill a myst in 4 hits or play with this silly thing and hope it hits XD
Equipment: I will cover weapons later
Your gear should be mostly STR based because every point of STR that you save yourself from buying will be 11 stat points to spend elsewhere. Here are a few sets of equipment from easy to get to "OMG, I'll never get that!"
_____________________________________________
98+12 Gear ...yep sadly this is mine because I never got the mantis clips
Head: +1 STR headgear
Body: "Extra" Thief Clothes (Picky card +1 STR)
Acces: +2 STR accessory 2ea. (double forced belt/clip or rings)
so 98+6 job+6 gear = 110
___________________________________________
96+14 Gear
Head: +1 STR headgear
Body: "Extra" Thief Clothes (Picky card +1 STR)
Acces: 2 x Clip of muscle +3 STR ea.
so 96 + 6 job + 8 gear = 110 STR and save 22 stat points for other stats
______________________________________________
Uber 93+17 -"OMG-I'll never get that!"
Head: +1 STR headgear
Body: "Extra" Thief Clothes (Picky card +1 STR)
Acces: Ring of Muscle (2 ea.) +4 STR ea.
Slotted Sun Glasses with Deviruchi card- +1 STR
so 93+ 6 job + 11 gear = 110 and saves 55 stat points!!
_________________________________________________
All of the gear builds are base on cards availible before Juno. It will be easier to attain 110 if High Orc & mimic cards make it into the game. Also that lowly picky card gets better after the card patch! It becomes +1 STR & +10 ATK...Yep...That's pretty good for a daggersin because that 10 gets multiplied by all of the +% modifiers o.O
Weapons & Damage..How STR affects it
______________________________________
A STR bonus is received at each base 10. Formula is STR/10 =X then take X to the second power for your bonus.
10 STR is 10/10 = 1; 1*1 = 1
20 STR 20/10 = 2; 2*2 = 4
30 STR = 9
40 STR = 16
50 STR = 25
60 STR = 36
70 STR = 49
80 STR = 64
90 STR = 81
100 STR = 100
110 STR = 121
Your STR & the +% modifiers have the most impact on your ability to deal damage. Base weapon damage will help give extra damage but it's not a major factor. Base weapon damage as well as any plus to ATK cards in the weapon (ie. Andre cards) are affected by size modifier applied to dagger class weapons but your STR and STR bonus is NOT!
Andre Cards-
Good or bad... How about after the card patch they will be +30....then they will rule right?? Once you turn Daggersin you would only want to consider using Triple Hurricaine main hand if you need a neutral weapon and do not have the correct +% carded weapon to use main hand. Lets say you were killing alarms. They are neural property so Triple Hurricaine would work well if you didn't have a Triple Beholder or Triple boned. If you have one of the +% carded weapons you would want to use those unless you have low STR.
Please note that all damage calculations have been simplified. Monster size, defense and VIT haven't been taken into accout..The calculation is only to demonstrate the effect of +% modifiers and STR on damage output. Keep in mind That size modifiers would have a greater affect on the hurricaine weapon then on the beholder weapon because those andre cards add to base weapon damage.
What do those +% cards do that's so great anyway?
The +% cards on the off hand weapon modify the damage of the main hand weapon as well. We are not just talking base weapon damage here! Your STR and STR Bonus also receive the bonus and that means big damage. If you have an elemental weapon that is going to give +200% damage and Quad carded main gauche (with +20% cards) in the off hand and the cards apply to that creature then the main hand now delivers 200% * (1+80/100)= 360% damage.. There will be a more specific example later.
Is it true that daggersins have a difficult time killing Large creatures- It all comes down to monster defense. The size modifier only applies to the base weapon damage which is a very small part of the whole equation. As long as that large creature doesn't also have high defense then your damage will be affected very little.
Main Gauche(MG) vs Stiletto/Gladius
___________________________
Which is better??
-Looking at it from a pure damage stand point the Quad Carded MG wins every time. But there are reasons to go Triple with some wepons.
-If you can afford to go Quad then do so.. If you are on a buget then triple will do nicely.
-There are times when you will want to use a non-elemental carded dagger in the main hand and you certainly don't want that weapon to be a MG. An exceptional choice for triple weapon would be +5 Triple boned gladius. You can use it main hand with other daggers against creatures that do not have elemental weaknesses such as Alarms. When you are not using main hand then it still gives a good boost as an off hand weapon...
Weapon Upgrades
__________________
Over upgrading the main hand weapon will add a noticable amount of extra damage because it is affected by all of the +% modiefiers. Over upgrading the off hand weapon will add very little to the over all damage so don't spend too much time/zeny getting a +10 Main Guache. Better to get +6,+7 slotted gladius or +6,+7 elemental damascus... Overupgrading is much more meaningful to weapons that will be used in the main hand. Also weapon pluses are NOT affected by the size modifier and receive all +% modifiers so a +6 elemental Damascus would be slightly better then +5 VS elemental Damascus
VS & VVS Elemental weapons: give +5 or +10 Damage respectively but that damage isn't modified by the elemental modifier. It is affected by +% cards in the off hand weapon so it will add a little more than 5 or 10 points.
Daggersins must know all about the creatures they are fighting. If you know everything about the creature you will know what daggers will work best.
Main Hand Weapon- This is where that hard earned Elemental dagger goes
Off Hand- Carries the appropriate carded weapon. Hot-Keys (F1-F9) will switch/cycle the wepaon in this hand only.
How do I choose Daggers?????
_________________________________
I'm not going to list very many dagger combo's. It's better to learn to use your own combo. That way you will know the best combo you have with your weapons that are availible for all creatures current & future.
If possible ALWAYS use elemental weapon main hand which one depends on the creature type/class...
Race Cards
Caramel-insecticide- +20% vs insect
Goblin-clamorous - +20% vs brute
Peco egg-Beholder-+20% vs formless
Scorpion - Chemical- +20% to plant
Flora- Fisher- +20% vs Fish
Hydra- Bloody - +20% to Demi-Human
Walking petite- Dragoon - +25% vs Dragon
Strouf - Decussate - +25% to Demon ---Not in iRO yet
Class Cards
Drainliar- Saharic - +20% vs water
Vadon- Flammable- +20% vs fire
Mandragora- Windy - +20% vs wind
Santa Poring card- Hallowed- +20% vs Dark
Anacondaq- Envenom - +20% vs Poison
Kaho - Underneath - +20% vs Earth ---> Not in iRO yet
Orc Skeleton - Damned - +20% to holy
Size
Skeleton Worker - Boned - +15% to medium monsters
Desert Wolf - Gigantic - +15% to Small size monsters
Minorous - Titan - +15% to Large size monsters
When leveling choose a location and then take the minimum number of daggers that will help you kill efficeintly. Here is my setup for sphynx... Notice I'm not concerned with weapon cycling/swaping to get the best possible damage on all creatures... Just some kind of +% against most of the creatures will do nicely.
Elemental Stacking
-This is where you add an element to carded weapons in each hand to achieve even greater damage. Here is an example:
Triple Boned Gladius + Quad Boned Gladius + Aspersio "stacked" vs medium undead. At 110 STR I can do about 2600 to prisoners with this combo.
The other stackable element is Poison via enchant poison. It works great against Earth1, Earth2, Fire1, Fire2, Wind1, Wind2 only. Higher levels of those elemental classes don't take extra damage from poison. One of my favorite places to stack poison is Orc village (High Orc, Orc Warrior, Orc Lady, and Orc Archer)
Triple Boned Gladius + Trilpe/quad Bloody + Enchant Poison
Creature specific weapons-What are they & what do they do?
Are daggers that do even better damage but to far fewer creatures. They would only be helpful if both of these are true
-you intend to level on them for a long time
-They have High Hit Points... More than 7k
How to make them....Lets say you want to level on sea otters... They are Water3, Brute, Medium so if we use our normal weapons like
Wind Damascus + Quad Saharic MG then the main hand damage is 360%
But lets try Wind Damascus + Double Saharic Double Clamorous MG so now our main hand weapon does [(200*1.4)*1.4] = 392% Damage The 2 different types of cards are calculated into the stack seperately which gives a better damage bonus. But now this main gauche is only good against water monsters that are also brutes so it's less useful in general.
*****UPDATE*******
Yes, you need an Ancient weapon and I totally didn't cover the topic XD so I'm adding this disscussion and update on MVP.... Also get the triple crit JUR and the skills to use it & keep it handy.
Blah...that's it for now... I may add more later or expand a few concepts but in general it's done...take it or leave it...
We will start off with some terms
Terms:
_____________
Main Hand Weapon- (Right hand weapon/left weapon box on equip screen) This is where that elemental weapon goes! It's the hand that delivers the Double attack.
Off Hand Weapon- (Left hand weapon/right weapon box on equip screen) This is where you put that carded weapon.
+% modifiers: I'll use this to refer to anything that adds additional percent damage to an attack so it will refer to the bonus of an elemental weapon, carded weapon, or combination of both
Triple Slash- This is double attack with the main hand weapon followed by a hit with the off hand weapon...Nice big yellow number hopefully in the thousands.. /gg
MG: Main Gauche
VS: Very strong- refers to a smithed weapon with a star crumb +5 Damage even on a miss. The +5 does receive the +% modifiers from the off hand weapon.
VVS: Very Very Strong- 2 star crumbs adds +10 damage even if you miss
VVVS: Very,Very, Very Strong- +15 but cannot be elemental
Neutral: A creature or weapon without an elemental property.
Cycle/cycling daggers- Refers to using Hot Keys to switch daggers in the off hand specifically same type daggers in a stack.
Dagger Stack- refers to multiple daggers of the same type. Like elemental Damascus, Non-elemental MG, elemental Stiletto, or non-elemental stiletto that are bound to Hot Keys for cycling. Each stack uses a different Hot Key. Hitting the Hot Key multiple times will cycle through the stack. The equipt dagger goes to the bottom of the appropriate stack and the top dagger on the stack is equipt onto the off hand. The top dagger that is equipt depends on the Hot Key.
Quote:
Examples of stacks
F2-Fire Damascus, Ice Damascus, Wind Damascus
F3-Boned MG, Beholder MG, Flammable MG
F4-Earth MG
Race- A creatures Race- Brute, Fish, Demi-Human, Demon, Plant ...ectQuote:
Example of Cycling- Equipt weapons Wind Damascus & Boned MG
now your stacks look like this
F2-Fire Damascus, Ice Damascus
F3-Beholder MG, Flammable MG
F4-Earth MG
Hitting F3 will place the Beholder MG into left hand and dump the boned MG at the bottom of the stack... F2 would load Fire Damascus and dump Boned MG at the bottom of it's stack ect.....
Type/Class- when refering to a creature it is thier elemental type/class (Fire1, Fire2,Ice 1,Wind 1, Dark1 ect.... ) The number after the type is thier elemental level and will determine how weak/strong they are to other elements
Size- Yep...creature size there are small/medium/large
__________________________________________________ ___
The Begining:
__________________________________________________ ___
Daggersin Mantra: It's all about the Strength
Str is prime stat for the Daggersin. If you like to attack fast build a crit sin. I never wrote down my stat progression as I leveled my character so I don't have solid numbers for you but I always put STR before any other stat.
Novice: STR: 9, DEX 9, AGI 9 everything else is 1
I think I did something like this.
STR:40
AGI:10
DEX:10
I started this way so I had some killing power then went to AGI for a bit and got some DEX. The higher your STR the faster you can kill, get EXP, and find loot. A good rule would to be keep STR 10 higher than AGI. At the very least keep you STR & AGI equal and get 25 DEX so you will have about 50 STR, 50 AGI, & 25 DEX when you turn assassin.
When you get to 65 to 70 AGI & 42 DEX switch to STR only and get to your STR goal for your build. Ideally you want to hit 110 STR; that means getting your STR to 9X so your base STR + Job bonus + Gear = 110.. You will be about lvl 90 or 91 when that happens. Then it's time to get more AGI and some VIT.. Final stats will look something like this
STR: 9X + 1X = 110
AGI: 8X + XX
VIT: 20 or more
DEX: 42+8
If this seems too extreme and want more AGI earlier that's okay just don't go crazy! DO NOT get 70 AGI and 20 STR unless you like to level very slowly. I'd rather spend my time killing creatures rather than dodging them forever. Dual wielding slows ASPD so you have to make up for it with high damage using high STR and +% modifiers.
How to level with low AGI
1. Do not miss... Make sure you level on creatures you can hit 100% of the time. Every miss means you have to dodge more... And that's not our strong suit.
2. The one nice thing about all that STR is you can carry a lot of potions and you will need them. You will get hit...so what... Nothing a few pots can't fix.
3. Choose creatures you can kill fast. The faster you kill it the less attacks you have to dodge. Even if the creatures are worth less in EXP than some tougher creatures you can gain as much or more EXP because you can kill many in the time it would take to kill one tougher creature.
Daggersin Mantra II : It's all about the speed of the Kill
Skills:
_____________
Right Hand Mastery: 5
Left Hand Mastery: 5
Enchant Poison: 5 at least
Venom Dust: 5 or more--> I like this one
Cloaking: 1
I recommend that you know how to use katar weapons as well... They can come in very handy at times and you can get a reasonable crit rate with a triple crit jur unless the creature is uber lucky. It's good for Horongs and other extremely high defense monsters. Besides hitting for over 2K with sonic blow is just plain fun.
Optional but recommended (I Stongly recommend this if you want to have a chance aginst some bosses & creatures)
Katar Mastery: 10
Sonic Blow :10
Didn't like or haven't used
-Venom Spasher-What the hell...anyway may be fun...I don't know
-Poison React- Too limited in it's uses...I have 2 choices walk up and kill a myst in 4 hits or play with this silly thing and hope it hits XD
Equipment: I will cover weapons later
Your gear should be mostly STR based because every point of STR that you save yourself from buying will be 11 stat points to spend elsewhere. Here are a few sets of equipment from easy to get to "OMG, I'll never get that!"
_____________________________________________
98+12 Gear ...yep sadly this is mine because I never got the mantis clips
Head: +1 STR headgear
Body: "Extra" Thief Clothes (Picky card +1 STR)
Acces: +2 STR accessory 2ea. (double forced belt/clip or rings)
so 98+6 job+6 gear = 110
___________________________________________
96+14 Gear
Head: +1 STR headgear
Body: "Extra" Thief Clothes (Picky card +1 STR)
Acces: 2 x Clip of muscle +3 STR ea.
so 96 + 6 job + 8 gear = 110 STR and save 22 stat points for other stats
______________________________________________
Uber 93+17 -"OMG-I'll never get that!"
Head: +1 STR headgear
Body: "Extra" Thief Clothes (Picky card +1 STR)
Acces: Ring of Muscle (2 ea.) +4 STR ea.
Slotted Sun Glasses with Deviruchi card- +1 STR
so 93+ 6 job + 11 gear = 110 and saves 55 stat points!!
_________________________________________________
All of the gear builds are base on cards availible before Juno. It will be easier to attain 110 if High Orc & mimic cards make it into the game. Also that lowly picky card gets better after the card patch! It becomes +1 STR & +10 ATK...Yep...That's pretty good for a daggersin because that 10 gets multiplied by all of the +% modifiers o.O
Weapons & Damage..How STR affects it
______________________________________
A STR bonus is received at each base 10. Formula is STR/10 =X then take X to the second power for your bonus.
10 STR is 10/10 = 1; 1*1 = 1
20 STR 20/10 = 2; 2*2 = 4
30 STR = 9
40 STR = 16
50 STR = 25
60 STR = 36
70 STR = 49
80 STR = 64
90 STR = 81
100 STR = 100
110 STR = 121
Your STR & the +% modifiers have the most impact on your ability to deal damage. Base weapon damage will help give extra damage but it's not a major factor. Base weapon damage as well as any plus to ATK cards in the weapon (ie. Andre cards) are affected by size modifier applied to dagger class weapons but your STR and STR bonus is NOT!
Andre Cards-
Good or bad... How about after the card patch they will be +30....then they will rule right?? Once you turn Daggersin you would only want to consider using Triple Hurricaine main hand if you need a neutral weapon and do not have the correct +% carded weapon to use main hand. Lets say you were killing alarms. They are neural property so Triple Hurricaine would work well if you didn't have a Triple Beholder or Triple boned. If you have one of the +% carded weapons you would want to use those unless you have low STR.
Please note that all damage calculations have been simplified. Monster size, defense and VIT haven't been taken into accout..The calculation is only to demonstrate the effect of +% modifiers and STR on damage output. Keep in mind That size modifiers would have a greater affect on the hurricaine weapon then on the beholder weapon because those andre cards add to base weapon damage.
Quote:
2 Triple hurricaine Stilettos 177 ATK each @ STR 40
Main Hand: 177(base weapon damage) + 40 STR + 16 Bonus = 233 x2 (double attack) = 466
Off Hand : 177+ 40 STR + 16 Bonus = 233 * 80% = 186
Triple Slash = 652
But at 50 STRQuote:
Triple Beholder Stiletto + Triple Hurricaine vs Alarm @ 40 STR
Main Hand: 87+ 40 STR + 16 Bonus * 60% = 228 x2 (double attack) =456
Off Hand : 177+ 40 STR + 16 Bonus = 233 * 80% = 186
Triple Slash = 642
Quote:
2 Triple hurricaine Stilettos 177 ATK each @ STR 50
Main Hand: 177 + 50 STR + 25 Bonus = 252 x2 (double attack) = 504
Off Hand : 177+ 50 STR + 25 Bonus = 252 * 80% = 201
Triple Slash = 705
As STR goes up beyond 50 the appropriate +% damage carded weapon will out pace the +30 ATK per card that you can get from future andre cards. These cards will be great for some types of characters but not a great card for a daggersin...Quote:
Triple Beholder Stiletto + Triple Hurricaine vs Alarm @ 50 STR
Main Hand: 87+ 50 STR + 25 Bonus * 60% = 259 x2 (double attack) =518
Off Hand : 177+ 50 STR + 25 Bonus = 252 * 80% = 201
Triple Slash = 719
What do those +% cards do that's so great anyway?
The +% cards on the off hand weapon modify the damage of the main hand weapon as well. We are not just talking base weapon damage here! Your STR and STR Bonus also receive the bonus and that means big damage. If you have an elemental weapon that is going to give +200% damage and Quad carded main gauche (with +20% cards) in the off hand and the cards apply to that creature then the main hand now delivers 200% * (1+80/100)= 360% damage.. There will be a more specific example later.
Is it true that daggersins have a difficult time killing Large creatures- It all comes down to monster defense. The size modifier only applies to the base weapon damage which is a very small part of the whole equation. As long as that large creature doesn't also have high defense then your damage will be affected very little.
Main Gauche(MG) vs Stiletto/Gladius
___________________________
Which is better??
-Looking at it from a pure damage stand point the Quad Carded MG wins every time. But there are reasons to go Triple with some wepons.
-You will only see a big difference in thier killing power againt creatures with high HP. If you have a triple carded weapon in the off hand and can kill the creature in 3 hits then a quad may take 2 or 3 hits to do the same work so it may or may not kill faster in that case. But if the creature takes 6 or more strikes to kill then the quad really starts to out pace the triple carded weapon.Quote:
-If you can afford to go Quad then do so.. If you are on a buget then triple will do nicely.
-There are times when you will want to use a non-elemental carded dagger in the main hand and you certainly don't want that weapon to be a MG. An exceptional choice for triple weapon would be +5 Triple boned gladius. You can use it main hand with other daggers against creatures that do not have elemental weaknesses such as Alarms. When you are not using main hand then it still gives a good boost as an off hand weapon...
Weapon Upgrades
__________________
Over upgrading the main hand weapon will add a noticable amount of extra damage because it is affected by all of the +% modiefiers. Over upgrading the off hand weapon will add very little to the over all damage so don't spend too much time/zeny getting a +10 Main Guache. Better to get +6,+7 slotted gladius or +6,+7 elemental damascus... Overupgrading is much more meaningful to weapons that will be used in the main hand. Also weapon pluses are NOT affected by the size modifier and receive all +% modifiers so a +6 elemental Damascus would be slightly better then +5 VS elemental Damascus
VS & VVS Elemental weapons: give +5 or +10 Damage respectively but that damage isn't modified by the elemental modifier. It is affected by +% cards in the off hand weapon so it will add a little more than 5 or 10 points.
Daggersins must know all about the creatures they are fighting. If you know everything about the creature you will know what daggers will work best.
Main Hand Weapon- This is where that hard earned Elemental dagger goes
Off Hand- Carries the appropriate carded weapon. Hot-Keys (F1-F9) will switch/cycle the wepaon in this hand only.
How do I choose Daggers?????
_________________________________
I'm not going to list very many dagger combo's. It's better to learn to use your own combo. That way you will know the best combo you have with your weapons that are availible for all creatures current & future.
If possible ALWAYS use elemental weapon main hand which one depends on the creature type/class...
Now we need to boost our main hand weapon with a carded off hand weapon. There are 3 things that determine what carded weapon to use. Race/Class/Size.Quote:
Ice vs Fire
Fire vs Earth & undead
Wind vs Water
Earth vs Wind
Race Cards
Caramel-insecticide- +20% vs insect
Goblin-clamorous - +20% vs brute
Peco egg-Beholder-+20% vs formless
Scorpion - Chemical- +20% to plant
Flora- Fisher- +20% vs Fish
Hydra- Bloody - +20% to Demi-Human
Walking petite- Dragoon - +25% vs Dragon
Strouf - Decussate - +25% to Demon ---Not in iRO yet
Class Cards
Drainliar- Saharic - +20% vs water
Vadon- Flammable- +20% vs fire
Mandragora- Windy - +20% vs wind
Santa Poring card- Hallowed- +20% vs Dark
Anacondaq- Envenom - +20% vs Poison
Kaho - Underneath - +20% vs Earth ---> Not in iRO yet
Orc Skeleton - Damned - +20% to holy
Size
Skeleton Worker - Boned - +15% to medium monsters
Desert Wolf - Gigantic - +15% to Small size monsters
Minorous - Titan - +15% to Large size monsters
That's how it's done....Learn the creatures properties and you will know exactly what to use.Quote:
So lets say you want to kill zeroms.... If you don't know thier properties then check roempire's monster database. Looking there we see that zeroms are:
Race: Demi-Human
Type/Class: Fire1
Size: Medium
okay, they are fire1 that means we need to equip our Ice element main hand and choose a dagger for the off hand. I have 3 choices... Vadon (flammable) carded weapon, Hydra (Bloody) carded weapon, or Skeleton worker (Boned) carded weapon.
When leveling choose a location and then take the minimum number of daggers that will help you kill efficeintly. Here is my setup for sphynx... Notice I'm not concerned with weapon cycling/swaping to get the best possible damage on all creatures... Just some kind of +% against most of the creatures will do nicely.
Rhaaaa... The prison sucks... I swear they put those brilights there just to make a Daggersins life miserable!!!! What to do, What to do??? Okay in a situation like that where you can use fire against everything except one creature that is very resistant to that element there is a trick/method to swap the main hand dagger using Hot-Keys....Quote:
f2-Elemenal Damascus
f3-Stiletto
f4-Gladius -Put my +% vs size cards on gladius
Main hand: Ice Damascus
Off Hand: Fire Damascus/Flammable Stiletto/Ancient Stiletto/Boned Gladius
F2: gives double element for whispers, Evil Druid (weak to fire), Wraith (weak to fire)
F3: cycle between Flammable for Minorous & Marduk (this setup gives the best damage againt the strongest creatures in sphynx) and Ancient for Mimics & maybe wraiths depending on your dex.
F4: Boned vs matry,sidewinder,anacondaq,Zerom,requiem
This setup gives enhanced damage vs everything there except drainliar and I can weapon select very quickly. I only ever have to cycle the stiletto everything else is a matter of hitting an F-Key once. It's just too slow to cycle through a list to get optimum damage...Time better spent killin. Just get some kind of +% multiplier and you'll be in business.
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Key Bindings-
F2- Elemental daggers
F3- Main Gauch
F8- Jur/Katar
Lets say you have Ice in your main hand and quad boned MG in off hand and want to switch to Fire that's in your inventory.
Hit F8 which equips jur/katar this dumps th Ice at the end of elemental dagger stack now when you hit a Hot Key it "LOADS" the off hand weapon first like normal cycling and hitting Hot Key again "Loads" main hand weapon. So for my key bindings I would hit
F8 switch to jur/katar and dumps daggers then F3 (loads quad boned in off hand) then F2 (loads first elemental dagger in the stack - Fire)
Repeat process to switch back to ICE
Elemental Stacking
-This is where you add an element to carded weapons in each hand to achieve even greater damage. Here is an example:
Triple Boned Gladius + Quad Boned Gladius + Aspersio "stacked" vs medium undead. At 110 STR I can do about 2600 to prisoners with this combo.
The other stackable element is Poison via enchant poison. It works great against Earth1, Earth2, Fire1, Fire2, Wind1, Wind2 only. Higher levels of those elemental classes don't take extra damage from poison. One of my favorite places to stack poison is Orc village (High Orc, Orc Warrior, Orc Lady, and Orc Archer)
Triple Boned Gladius + Trilpe/quad Bloody + Enchant Poison
Creature specific weapons-What are they & what do they do?
Are daggers that do even better damage but to far fewer creatures. They would only be helpful if both of these are true
-you intend to level on them for a long time
-They have High Hit Points... More than 7k
How to make them....Lets say you want to level on sea otters... They are Water3, Brute, Medium so if we use our normal weapons like
Wind Damascus + Quad Saharic MG then the main hand damage is 360%
But lets try Wind Damascus + Double Saharic Double Clamorous MG so now our main hand weapon does [(200*1.4)*1.4] = 392% Damage The 2 different types of cards are calculated into the stack seperately which gives a better damage bonus. But now this main gauche is only good against water monsters that are also brutes so it's less useful in general.
*****UPDATE*******
Yes, you need an Ancient weapon and I totally didn't cover the topic XD so I'm adding this disscussion and update on MVP.... Also get the triple crit JUR and the skills to use it & keep it handy.
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Yikes! I knew I forgot something...heh.. I was in a hurry to get it done and forgot to mention another needed weapon for the daggersin...
The Quad Ancient MG will help you hit the few creatures that you have difficulty hitting like Hunter Flies, Mimics, brilights, Jokers, Wraiths and for MVP & PVP if you are into that. The disadvantage is the loss of the +% cards in the off hand so you will only want to use it if absolutely needed.
42 Dex is enough... More is nice but not a must have... I've seen a few builds with as low as 32 DEX... They may have to rely on ancient daggers more heavily...not sure since I didn't walk that road.
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Originally Posted by Jobe
Forgive my ignorance, but will it be possible to MvP using this build? the dex there is relatively low and well how wells the Hit Rate for this sin build. From the build, i gather that it may encounter some issues with hunterflies and the likes as well...
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Hunter Flies are not a problem...I run fire Damascus main hand in prison against all but the brilight. When I encounter Hunter Fly I switch to my triple ancient for 100% hit rate and triple slash them for 800+ damage (that's using Fire + triple ancient). If I'm blessed I don't even need ancient. With triple ancient I only have difficulties on Jokers (only hit about 80% but it's enough) and wanderer XD.... Guess I'll bust out that Triple Crit Jur so I stand a fighting chance...lol... Sadly I think my crit with triple crit jur and 1 luck is better than my hit rate with ancient vs wanderer... Quagmire will work wonders against these guys though.
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Originally Posted by Jobe
I have yet to pump my Str past 30, and got my very first MvP lastnite (moonlite)
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Vs Moonlight with +5 VS Ice Damascus & +7 Quad Flammable MG @ 110 STR with Bless I can triple slash her for 2200+ .... I've won MVP against a crit assassin on one occassion and once when a Knight & Wizard team tried to take her from us. She is one of bosses Daggersins will have no problem with. I've taken her out over a dozen times with just myself and priest support. Just watch out for her Mamonite! Make sure you can withstand a 5K hit from that attack and you should have no problems.
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Originally Posted by KageHoshi
My personal experience with MVP's. I got MVP on the following bosses but not always by dealing the most damage :/ ...Silly Wizards...curses..BTW- the damage listed is triple slash damage
Eggda- He's a pushover... I got MVP multiple times. Solo'ed once (no support) & won MVP versus crit assassin on another occasion. Ice Damascus & quad flammable worked very well against Eggda. I can hit him for about 1800.
Moonlight- Same daggers as above and even more damage because less defense and medium size...about 2200 with buffs. Daggersin can easily win MVP with that kind of damage but you will need a priest to back you up and you must have around 6000 HP. Her mamonite attack hits for about 5k damage so you need to be able to withstand that attack. She almost always uses it at least once.
Orc Lord- He was tough and I had a little trouble hitting him. I used Fire Damascus and Triple Bloody and hit for about 800 damage. Our guild had him to ourselves so we finally killed him and I got MVP but he was tough. Next time I'll have my team test to see is Provoke will reduce his armor but it may not work on a boss. If that fails I may go crit against him. I can crit for about 400 and with triple crit jur + counter clips +gloria I'll be at around 77% crit on him so I might see if that works better.
Phreeoni- This battle was a long one... I wasn't hunting phreeoni so I didn't have the right blades but I ran into him and there was a priest that supported. I had fire damascus at least and I was doing about 700 but I could have done more if I would have had the correct daggers. So he is managable with just Daggersin + Priest support
Haitii/Garm- Tough to hit. I lost some of damage ability because I had to use Wind Damascus and ancient so I only hit for about 700... I got MVP on him for taking the most damage...The wizard who used me as a tank did the most damage and got the loot...Again maybe equip crit would work better.....Daggersin with Priest support should be able to manage Haitii but it will take awhile..heh
Mistress- OMG she was tough.! Hard to hit so again ancient had to be used along with earth... I was hitting for around 700 maybe a little more. She Heals for 1200 or more and it seems like she does it every second XD... If not for the wizard I could never have killed her. Again I probably didn't do as much damage but I definitely took the most punishment...Definately a Team effort and it would be tough to win MVP through damage.
***Update***
Doppelganger- Well I got MVP but someone else killed him. Don't even try to use your daggers.... 85 Defense and 90VIT XD... Remember that Triple Crit Jur I was talking about?? This is why it should be in your arsenal. I was able to get a resonable crit rate with gloria and crit for nearly 500 so had the priestess I was with not run out of SP we would have taken him out but we had to teleport then lost track of him and another team finished him off.... But I had already done enough damage for MVP...but alas not items /sob
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In some of these fights I was still not hitting at 100% with my triple ancient equipt so even with 60 DEX you will need to use an Ancient weapon...And that's just half the battle for Daggersins. If we do manage to hit at or near 100% there's the matter of the high defense that some of the MVP bosses possess. MVP for a Daggersin is a hard fought battle.
Blah...that's it for now... I may add more later or expand a few concepts but in general it's done...take it or leave it...
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